Here's the links to their responses:
http://www.suvudu.com/2010/02/blogger-interview-george-r-r-martin.html
http://thewertzone.blogspot.com/
http://aidanmoher.com/blog/
Here are my responses (there were some much much longer posts below on the first two questions, but I will keep the shorter versions now, as this was getting out of hand).
1. Don’t George’s other pursuits—watching football, editing anthologies, traveling to other countries and conventions, blogging about his merchandise—hamper his completion of the new book?
Sure – the same way my wife and kids, and my hobbies “hamper” my work productivity. The occasional weekend off, family vacation, or kids birthday party means that I tend not to sit at my desk 24 hours a day. Sure, my boss would love it if I never left, and never took a minute to read The Wertzone, Pat’s Fantasy Hotlist, or A Dribble of Ink every morning, or spend 2 hours breaking down the Packers home opponents in 2010….but I’m not going to give away my life for any job, and its beyond absurd when readers demand it – aside from the irony of them logging on to fantasy blogs while at work and posting their outrage.
2. Are readers of A Song of Ice & Fire entitled to be angry that George has missed his own created deadlines?
Sure, the same way you’re entitled to being a little upset if your dinner takes a long time from the kitchen, or if someone on the technical support line tells you they’ll be with you in a minute, but don’t get back on the line for five full minutes. First off, they were George’s own predictions and self-set deadlines, and the reality is that it has to be disappointing to George as well. Secondly, the anger that a lot of "fans" send George's way is just ridiculous. The anonymity of the internet sure is nice if you are out there screaming like a jerk. Even when you try to be funny and hide your anonymity behind Joe Pesci and Ray Liotta pictures, you are still just being a jerk when you look at it closely.
3. Is it unethical for George to write on his blog about his other merchandise opportunities when the majority of people visiting his website are only interested in A Dance With Dragons?
This is the most ridiculous of the complaints in my book. The man writes books, and sells them. He also sells other items affiliated with his books. Sure, ASOIAF is the most popular thing, but why on Earth would he not use the site to promote his own products? ASOIAF has its own sample link, its own update page, and a wealth of other information on his website; I think its absurd that anyone would complain about this issue. Honestly, early on when checking his site out for information on ASOIAF, I came across his other works and read most of them because I found out about it there. On top of that, thanks to his “What I’m reading” link, I found out about Melinda Snodgrass, S.L. Farrell, and Daniel Abraham; each of whom I’ve thoroughly enjoyed.
4. Is it legitimate for a fan who has bought his previous books to criticize George since their money has helped his success?
Sure, the same way that a “fan” has the right to attend a sporting event and criticize a player for the lack of effort or other malfeasance. But I’ve never been a fan of booing when a player simply makes a mistake or doesn’t win. I don’t buy a ticket with the “right” to see a victory by my favorite team or player, but I’m certainly a little entitled to their best effort.
Plenty of people will now complain that the "delay" waiting for these books is a sign of George's lack of effort or other nonsense. As I said a few posts down, there's no indication at all that George doesn't work extremely hard on these books, and certainly no evidence that his other projects or hobbies hinders his professionalism. George's personal writing style is what created the single best fantasy series every written (in my opinion at least), so why on Earth should I complain about that style now? There is simply no way to claim that A Dance with Dragons or anything else would be as good if George just sits at a desk somewhere for 12 hours a day and "writes." I want the best book George can write - and I fully expect that means waiting a while between installments.
A pretty fair comparison would be the recent movie "Avatar" which I will admit I haven't seen. I may not have my facts exactly right, but I'm pretty sure it took Cameron about 8 years to get this movie done. Everyone could have spent a decade whining about the fact that they didn't have a DVD of his latest movie yet - but most movie fans must have a little more rewarding life I guess. They waited 8 years and they get a film that is likely going to sweep the Oscars and break every box office record. Sure, Cameron played it better from the start since he didn't post daily/weekly updates and never gave any indication that his fans should expect the movie's release at any time. While you can argue that George has brought a lot of the reaction upon himself through his updates and his own guesses regarding when the books would be done; I would argue that regardless of unfulfilled expectations, his blog has provided an interesting insight into his creative process and allowed him to interact with fans. If that's not what you want, then don't check his website or read his NFL posts. He's a social guy who likes (most of) his fans - I guess there is a cost for that, but constant whining and anger still seems out of line.
5. Does a reader have the right to critique an author’s professional conduct simply because they have purchased a book by them?
I’ll simply restate my argument from above, that yes, I believe a reader can critique an author’s professional conduct, but the anger and vitriol directed at George is well over the line of acceptability.
6. Doesn’t George have an obligation to finish books in a timely manner so his fans don’t have to keep re-reading his previous books over and over again?
Now we are hitting my biggest point in this whole discussion, and get to the argument I made a few months ago to Shawn and others – I believe that everyone out there who enjoys the fantasy genre is missing out when they decide not to read these books “until the series is complete”.
I actually came to this conclusion when I was watching the original Star Wars trilogy with my 5 yr. old son. Thanks to “the Clone Wars” and the second Star Wars trilogy (along with a veiled reference in Toy Story 2), he already knew that Darth Vader was Luke’s father, and I realized how different those films were for my generation who had to wait almost THREE YEARS after the revelation in The Empire Strikes Back to find out if it was true. Heck, even the famous “Who Shot JR?” mystery from ‘Dallas’ wouldn’t have the same cultural cache if we’d all been able to watch the series straight through on DVD without any delay.
Every reread of ASOIAF adds a layer of understanding, and the lingering mysteries in the series won’t have nearly the same drama and meaning for readers who continue to wait. I’ve already had about 7 years of enjoyment pondering questions like “Does R+L=J?”, “Who is the Prince who was Promised?”, “Will we see the 3-eyed Crow?”, “Who gave that guy the dagger?”, “Why does Littlefinger want the tapestries?”, “What does Howland Reed know?”, “Who is Coldhands?” and many many other mysteries. There are clues everywhere in the series, but if you get the mystery resolved straight through on your first read, I think you will be missing out on much of the enjoyment of the books. I don't care how diligent of a reader you are, there are clues in the books you will miss the first time through. Having time to reread the books (and read the Dunk & Egg novellas, the forthcoming World of Ice and Fire book, and the RPG books out there too) gives the reader a better understanding of the characters and the unresolved mysteries too.
I know Adam at The Wertzone planned to discuss this in detail too, but there's something to be said for the unique interaction of ASOIAF fans over the years, whether its the Brotherhood without Banners, the forum at Westeros, or the gatherings of his fans at book signings, the cast parties for the HBO pilot, and the biggest conventions. Looking at the other interview answers and thinking realistically about the expectations of readers - its much more fun and enjoyable to accept the delays as they are and enjoy the series over and over again.
7. Does George have writer’s block?
I really don't think so - I just believe that the incredibly convoluted world he's created requires an astonishing amount of planning and writing/rewriting as he works to steer the characters toward the conclusion he has in mind. I don't know enough about the writing process, but given the manner in which George seems to write his stories, I believe the task of pulling all these strings together (largely in the next two books) is simply a very difficult task.
8. Isn’t the best way to show our displeasure with George is to not buy A Dance With Dragons when it is published?
Sure, but then you lose twice. First, you had to wait for them to get published. Now, you are just punishing yourself by making the wait even longer. Maybe I’m a glutton for punishment, but I’ll buy it the minute it comes out and read it immediately. After that, I will read it again. And as soon as that’s done, I’ll start waiting impatiently for the next book and wishing I could read that too. I’m all for the ‘power of the people’, but if you honestly think anyone else is punished by you not buying the book, you are kidding yourself. George will write like he always has, and when he gets a book done, they’ll publish it and sell millions of copies. You can enjoy them when they come out, or you can sit in a self-imposed exile of misery, content to enjoy your self-righteous pity party. I know what I’ll do.
9. If it has taken George five years to write the last two books, how long will it take him to write The Winds of Winter?
Hopefully a little less time, as the strings of this story start to come together, but after the past decade, you'd have to be an idiot to put any bets down on this guess. It will happen when it happens.
10. Isn’t it insulting that George thinks he doesn’t owe his readers anything? Doesn’t he owe us, at the very least, the conclusion of the series since he is living off of the money that we paid him?
Two thoughts here - first, he wrote a book and you bought it; which pretty much covers what he really "owes" any of us. Second, I don't know how you can argue this without recognizing the one-sided nature of your belief. I don't recall anything in law school or my career that would indicate that everyone who bought his earlier books has any obligation to buy and read the next one. And while its unlikely his publishers will do anything other than thank him and pay him a truckload of money for the next books - they still aren't obligated in nearly the same way that the fans seem to expect from him. They could make any manner of publishing decisions that would affect what George and his fans expect, if they felt it was in their best interests. There's no guarantee that they will publish the book when George wants, print as many copies as I demand, or do anything else. They agreed to pay him money, he agreed to write a book. And I have the ability to buy the book or not when its eventually published.
11. Has George ever apologized for the lateness of his last two books?
Repeatedly. No, he hasn't called every single person that bought his books - but he has repeatedly said he's disappointed with the time it took to finish A Feast for Crows, and how long its taken to write A Dance with Dragons. I guess everyone would "feel better" if he posted a Blog entry every morning criticizing himself and apologizing profusely....but then again, that would take away from how long he spends writing, so we'd be back to that argument.
12. Don’t readers have an obligation to be patient with a man who is arguably writing one of the best fantasy series of all time and wants it done right, one that will be read long after his grandchildren are gone?
Absolutely 100%. I want the books and I want to read them, but there is a reason certain books and authors are studied hundreds of years after their books were written. This series has the chance to have the same impact within the genre as The Lord of the Rings (although I'd hope George's heirs aren't sitting around publishing his unfinished notes for decades after he's gone). It is more important that he writes the best story he can.
13. Do his other activities and hobbies like conventions, traveling, editing anthologies, and watching football actually help his writing?
That would certainly be my contention. Obviously, this can go in the wrong direction pretty easily, but if I sit at my desk all day and night and avoid things that I enjoy in life – chances are I’ll become a pretty disgruntled and unproductive employee. And that doesn’t even take into account the fairly large creative differences between George’s career and mine. Aside from enjoying the NFL, you could make the point that George's other hobbies enhance his writing and the books we get to read. The man likes toy knights, jousting models, speculative fiction in all its various incarnations, etc. - and his books are obviously better for it. Many authors spend a great deal of time researching their next books or ideas for stories. Luckily for us as readers, George's hobbies and personal interest gives color to this series. I'd think it is fairly obvious that the books are better because of this.
For more on the incessant nature of this issue, check out the following older links as well:
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/entitlement-issues.html
http://www.suvudu.com/2009/01/in-defense-of-george-r-r-marti.html
http://aidanmoher.com/blog/2009/03/articles/article-guy-gavriel-kay-wades-into-the-martin-itis-debate/
http://aidanmoher.com/blog/2009/01/articles/article-why-you-should-cut-george-rr-martin-some-slack/
I hope for your sake this doesn't devolve into anti-GRRM spam, but your arguments are pretty well thought out. I'm on my third read through of the books myself, but I haven't read the other novellas or other books yet. Maybe I will look into them now. thanks.
ReplyDeletecool - another blogger defending Martin, what a shock! Did all the free books from his publisher make the difference? For those of us actually buying books, spending money on mediocre authors while we wait for Martin to finish his is annoying. I'm sick of it, and I will call him lazy and irresponsible even if he prints the book tomorrow. Its ridiculous and amateurish.
ReplyDeleteSeriously man - do you drink the Kool-aid much? To borrow your restaurant analogy, this is more like if I order a drink, an appetizer, and a nice entree; only the waiter brings me the drink and appetizer, then bills me for it and refuses to hand over the entree. He can explain that all I've really purchased so far were the drink and app, but he did tell me he'd give me the freaking entree too. When I bought A Feast for Crows, it listed the next few books as (forthcoming) - which pretty much implies they are going to be selling the books sometime while I am alive. When AFFC came out, GRRM stated publicly that the next book was almost done and that the ONLY REASON the book was split into two was because his publishers wanted it because of the cost of printing one huge book. I'm not a writer either - but if a book is almost entirely done, how on earth can't you wrap it up with an extra FIVE YEARS to work on it?
ReplyDeleteI guess sucking up to George is cheaper than buying him donuts
ReplyDeleteAll I'll say on this topic is when GRRM is no longer with us and the series was never completed that it will be a tragedy. GRRM had the potential to complete a fantasy masterpiece that would have been treasured for many years. By not completing the series however he will become a sad side note as the author of a series that was unfinished (or finished by some toadie with no real sense of whether this was GRRM's vision of the series). I laugh at individuals that still either trash GRRM or defend him. It is time to just admit that this series will most likely never be completed by GRRM. I agree with Jeff completely that GRRM can do whatever he wants and should enjoy the success he has had to this point. However I still am tinged with sadness by what I feel the outcome will be.....
ReplyDeleteI have trouble reconciling your answers to #10 & #12. In my mind, it's pretty hard to hold the positions simultaneously that (a) George has no obligation to deliver a timely product to the readers, but (b) the fans are "absolutely 100%" obligated to be patient with him. You might consider fleshing out your thoughts here a little more to avoid confusion.
ReplyDeleteI'm genuinely curious - when exactly did George *apologise* for the lateness of Dance? Because I honestly have not seen it. I don't mean expressing disappointment or, yanno, a petulant "I said I'm sorry!". I mean a real apology where he acknowledges fault and that his readers might have some cause for irritation without launching any passive-aggressive attacks at the people who are irritated.
ReplyDeleteI personally could not care less about any of the other questions or issues but George's (mostly) pissy, oh-woe-is-me responses to his fans really gets my goat.
The thing I find the funniest about this list of loaded questions is question #12 which suggests that we, the customer have an obligation to GRRM. We don't.
ReplyDeleteWhat's not mentioned is how GRRM's conduct has hurt other authors. I am by no means unique when I say this... "I will not purchase any book of any series by any author until the series is complete because of ASOIAF and GRRM."
Some of those authors... I'm sure they could have used the money they are now not getting and weak sales are like coffin nails in a writer's career.
What's also not mentioned is GRRM's Not-a-Billboard. This is where people go to gain some inkling of when the literary equivilent of Duke Nukem Forever will be in their hands, yet find GRRM peddling ugly figurines, waterlogged books, books where "Edited by GEORGE R.R. MARTIN" take up the entire cover, yet the author's names don't make an appearance, his left-leaning politics, his whining about NY football, and his totally obnoxious treatment of any and all who display any hope of ADWD being completed in their lifetime.
People have had years to get to know Mr. Martin, through his blog and guess what they've found? They've found that A Dance With Dragons not being done is pretty much the least of the reasons to dislike the man.
i'm not sure GRRM himself come up with more slanted responses than these.
ReplyDelete